Sprinkler Systems Uhaul move Lawn care Roses and trees Ford Parts Chrysler Parts Lake Powell New IPod Touch Apps New IPhone Apps IPhone Apps IPad Information IPad Apps Android APPS Android Games APPS Android Systems Android Tablets APPS and Beyond Smartphone Apps Smartphone Games Apps Repair and Tools Tablet PC Car Sharing Car Leasing Tabler Pc Fly Fishing Toyota Cars Vacation Rentals Stock market NYSE SSE Stock Freight & Shipping News Gluten Lactose Gout My Coupon Life Campgrounds Check Outdoor Kitchen Design and Redoo Bath Remodeling Palm Springs Las Vegas Vacation Tipps Lake Powell Boating Homes for lease Electric and green Car Blog Pearls and diamonds Whatsapp and forget SMS Blog, What is Whatsapp App Solar Panel Solar Energie Sun Power Blog
Reader


[Suche]  [Administrator]  [Hinweise zum Reader]  [Startseite]
Fantasy » alt.fan.pratchett » [A] Small Gods
[A] Small Gods [message #230365] Fr, 03 März 2006 23:58
Puck  
I was just reading the annotations for SG, and I noticed that a pretty
obvious one had been left out.

After Om has been winning Didactylos all that money by drawing geometric
figures in the sand, Diddactylos tells Urn to saw off one of the tortoise's
legs for stew because "A tortoise like that you don't eat all at once."

This is a reference to a classic joke. A man passes a farm and sees a pig
with a peg leg. He asks ths farmer how it got it, and the farmer says that
the pig saved his entire family from a fire; "A pig like that you don't eat
all at once."

It is a pretty clear reference. An animal has been of great use to a human,
the human callously decides to eat it anyway, but settles for just a leg
because a "(creature) like that you don't eat all at once".

--
Puck (onstage): I am that merry wanderer of the night!
Peaseblossom (in audience): "I am that merry wanderer of the night", indeed!
"I am that giggling-dangerous-totally-bloody-psychotic-menace-to-life and
limb, more like."
-Neil Gaiman
Re: [A] Small Gods [message #230376 ] Sa, 04 März 2006 01:38
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
Also Sprach Puck:

> I was just reading the annotations for SG, and I noticed
> that a pretty obvious one had been left out.

The obvious ones often are. In this case, it's not a reference
to the joke (as with Nobby's stories, which are only alluded to)
it is, in fact, the joke...


--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"Be reasonable, demand the impossible now" -Robb Johnson
"Run before you walk, fly before you crawl" -Moist von Lipwig
Re: Small Gods [message #230407 ] Sa, 04 März 2006 11:14
rja.carnegie  
Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
> Also Sprach Puck:
>
> > I was just reading the annotations for SG, and I noticed
> > that a pretty obvious one had been left out.
>
> The obvious ones often are.

I expect we'll agree that there are many places where the annotator
would say "You may have heard this one before." For instance, excuse
me not checking, I think there's a captain (pirate?) who has an
encounter with The Luggage right _The Colour of Magic_... I'm not
sure... anyway, the author says something like that the captain had
considered various ways of achieving immortality - fame, notoriety,
poetry - but decided the best way to achieve immortality is by not
dying. That may or may not be annotated as a borrow from Woody Allen.
I'm in two minds whether it matters or not.

> In this case, it's not a reference
> to the joke (as with Nobby's stories, which are only alluded to)
> it is, in fact, the joke...

And for that matter, there are different categories of joke; the
traditional, the scripted, and the scripted-but-often-retold. No doubt
there are episodes from Laurel and Hardy or the Jack Benny show that
are now in common use without their origin being recognised or
acknowledged.

And it's what you do, isn't it? Something mildly amusing happens in
the office, and you're reminded of a funny story, so you tell it.
That's what Pterry does. Except that things only happen on Discworld
because Pterry makes them happen...
Re: [A] Small Gods [message #234455 ] Sa, 04 März 2006 12:46
Sofia  
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:58:51 -0500, Puck wrote:

>
> This is a reference to a classic joke. A man passes a farm and sees a pig
> with a peg leg. He asks ths farmer how it got it, and the farmer says that
> the pig saved his entire family from a fire; "A pig like that you don't eat
> all at once."


Hmmm... I've never actually heard this very "obvious" and "classic" joke
before you just mentioned it!

>
> It is a pretty clear reference. An animal has been of great use to a human,
> the human callously decides to eat it anyway, but settles for just a leg
> because a "(creature) like that you don't eat all at once".


Is it really that much of a clear reference, or could it just possibly be
an accidental co-incidence, like a million other phrases from books,
jokes, films, melody's, quotes, etc.


All the best


Sofie

--
Please visit my deviantART page: http://sofen.deviantart.com/
Re: [A] Small Gods [message #234616 ] Sa, 04 März 2006 22:36
v$af$ppint  
- hi; in afparticle, <duahnd$5hk$1 [at] charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
Kormos.4 [at] osu.edu "Puck" observed, and asserted:
>
>I was just reading the annotations for SG, and I noticed that a pretty
>obvious one had been left out.
>
>After Om has been winning Didactylos all that money by drawing geometric
>figures in the sand, Diddactylos tells Urn to saw off one of the tortoise's
>legs for stew because "A tortoise like that you don't eat all at once."
>
>This is a reference to a classic joke. A man passes a farm and sees a pig
>with a peg leg. He asks ths farmer how it got it, and the farmer says that
>the pig saved his entire family from a fire; "A pig like that you don't eat
>all at once."
>
>It is a pretty clear reference. An animal has been of great use to a human,
>the human callously decides to eat it anyway, but settles for just a leg
>because a "(creature) like that you don't eat all at once".
>
- it's a "clear reference" to *that particular joke* ?

- then i guess it's also equally "clearly" a reference to
the muslim absolute prohibition against butchering (and
then cooking & eating, or doing aught else to) any animal,
without first killing it in a way that ensures it is dead
before aught else is done in the way of carving it up.

(i've no idea how to establish which came first, of course:
islam's only been around some fourteen hundred years or so...)

- love, ppint.
[the address from which this was posted bounces e-mail;
please change the "f" to a "g" and drop the "v" if you
wish to cc. or e-mail me.]
--
"The people all paint themselves red, and eat monkeys,
whereof there is an inexhaustible supply in the hills."
- Histories, Book Four - Herodotus
Re: Small Gods [message #234644 ] Mo, 06 März 2006 15:45
rja.carnegie  
"ppint. at IMT" wrote:
> - hi; in afparticle, <duahnd$5hk$1 [at] charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
> Kormos.4 [at] osu.edu "Puck" observed, and asserted:
> >
> >I was just reading the annotations for SG, and I noticed that a pretty
> >obvious one had been left out.
> >
> >After Om has been winning Didactylos all that money by drawing geometric
> >figures in the sand, Diddactylos tells Urn to saw off one of the tortoise's
> >legs for stew because "A tortoise like that you don't eat all at once."
> >
> >This is a reference to a classic joke. A man passes a farm and sees a pig
> >with a peg leg. He asks ths farmer how it got it, and the farmer says that
> >the pig saved his entire family from a fire; "A pig like that you don't eat
> >all at once."
> >
> >It is a pretty clear reference. An animal has been of great use to a human,
> >the human callously decides to eat it anyway, but settles for just a leg
> >because a "(creature) like that you don't eat all at once".
> >
> - it's a "clear reference" to *that particular joke* ?

Well, yeah.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22don%27t+eat+all+ at+once%22

Pig, pig, something else, pig ("Jewish humour"!?), pig, plant food,
pig, pig, pig, ...

I wonder if the Jewish angle is the Yiddish or German grammar.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22don%27t+ eat+it+all+at+once%22

has pig at #1, #9, #14, #31, and otherwise mostly injunctions against
gluttony... and way smaller overall results count.

Actually, upon checking the page... "No, it ain't Jewish, but it's
funny!" I think the reverse is true of some others there...

You could make it a chicken, for the soup...

> - then i guess it's also equally "clearly" a reference to
> the muslim absolute prohibition against butchering (and
> then cooking & eating, or doing aught else to) any animal,
> without first killing it in a way that ensures it is dead
> before aught else is done in the way of carving it up.

So casting Om as representing Allah. Nice. Of course they are not
really the same - Om is a spirit who makes personal appearances in
animal form. Big, impressive, scary animal form, if he can manage it.
Or... tortoise.

> (i've no idea how to establish which came first, of course:
> islam's only been around some fourteen hundred years or so...)

For longer than that, Christians have been ritually consuming pieces of
their god's body (the Pillsbury Dough Boy). So it could be that.
Re: Small Gods [message #234698 ] Di, 07 März 2006 04:50
&quot;v$af$ppint&amp;quot  
- hi; Robert Carnegie averred:
> "ppint. at IMT" wrote:
>>- hi; in afparticle, <duahnd$5hk$1 [at] charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
>> Kormos.4 [at] osu.edu "Puck" observed, and asserted:
>>
>>>I was just reading the annotations for SG, and I noticed that a pretty
>>>obvious one had been left out.
>>>
>>>After Om has been winning Didactylos all that money by drawing geometric
>>>figures in the sand, Diddactylos tells Urn to saw off one of the tortoise's
>>>legs for stew because "A tortoise like that you don't eat all at once."
>>>
>>>This is a reference to a classic joke. A man passes a farm and sees a pig
>>>with a peg leg. He asks ths farmer how it got it, and the farmer says that
>>>the pig saved his entire family from a fire; "A pig like that you don't eat
>>>all at once."
>>>
>>>It is a pretty clear reference. An animal has been of great use to a human,
>>>the human callously decides to eat it anyway, but settles for just a leg
>>>because a "(creature) like that you don't eat all at once".
>>>
>>
>> - it's a "clear reference" to *that particular joke* ?
>
>Well, yeah.
>
[snip]
>
>Actually, upon checking the page... "No, it ain't Jewish, but it's
>funny!" I think the reverse is true of some others there...
>
>You could make it a chicken, for the soup...

- i am duly impressed at your intimate acquaintence with
the workings of the mind of the creator & sole chronicler
of the discworld, and events thereupon, and propinquant.
i'm just this ppint, and make no such definitive - not to
say dogmatic - claim.
>
>> - then i guess it's also equally "clearly" a reference to
>> the muslim absolute prohibition against butchering (and
>> then cooking & eating, or doing aught else to) any animal,
>> without first killing it in a way that ensures it is dead
>> before aught else is done in the way of carving it up.
>
>So casting Om as representing Allah.

- nope.

>Nice. Of course they are not really the same - Om is a spirit who
>makes personal appearances in animal form. Big, impressive, scary
>animal form, if he can manage it. Or... tortoise.

- i made and make no claim that om represents allah: so the
fact that they are not identical diminishes the reference i
pointed out as being of equal likelihood not one whit; the
fact that arabia, and much of the lands islam spread out a-
cross are desert lands, of low rainfall and copious amounts
of dry rock and sand may, however, fairly and quite reason-
ably be adduced in support of this reference; enlightened
codes of conduct towards "dumb" animals as might otherwise
have suffered partial & progressive dismemberment for food
*without being killed* are rarely going to be legislated,
without perceived _need_. and in the poverty and privation
of the arabian desert, in this world, such need did exist:
hence the utter ban upon the practice in the rule of islam.
>
>> (i've no idea how to establish which came first, of course:
>> islam's only been around some fourteen hundred years or so...)
>
>For longer than that, Christians have been ritually consuming pieces
>of their god's body (the Pillsbury Dough Boy). So it could be that.
>
- there is a parallel total ban upon the partial progressive
dismemberment for food of living animals in law laid down in
the recorded teachings of jesus (or, at least, the teachings
attributed directly to him)?

- whatever one makes of the doctrine of transubstantiation,
nowhere have i seen it claimed that jesus was carved up and
pieces of him cooked _whilst_he_yet_lived_ during the course
of the last supper; and *that* is what would be the parallel.

- love, ppint.
[please drop the "v" and change the "f" to a "g",
and thou desirest to reply to me directly]
--
"the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable"
- oscar wilde, in _a woman of no importance_
Re: Small Gods [message #235476 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 21:35
rja.carnegie  
I was hoping someone else would chip in to save me from various risks
including that of coming over as pompous or self-righteous. Still, I
do want to disagree.

ppint. wrote:
> - hi; Robert Carnegie averred:
> > "ppint. at IMT" wrote:
> >>- hi; in afparticle, <duahnd$5hk$1 [at] charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
> >> Kormos.4 [at] osu.edu "Puck" observed, and asserted:
> >>
> >>>I was just reading the annotations for SG, and I noticed that a pretty
> >>>obvious one had been left out.
> >>>
> >>>After Om has been winning Didactylos all that money by drawing geometric
> >>>figures in the sand, Diddactylos tells Urn to saw off one of the tortoise's
> >>>legs for stew because "A tortoise like that you don't eat all at once."
> >>>
> >>>This is a reference to a classic joke. A man passes a farm and sees a pig
> >>>with a peg leg. He asks ths farmer how it got it, and the farmer says that
> >>>the pig saved his entire family from a fire; "A pig like that you don't eat
> >>>all at once."
> >>>
> >>>It is a pretty clear reference. An animal has been of great use to a human,
> >>>the human callously decides to eat it anyway, but settles for just a leg
> >>>because a "(creature) like that you don't eat all at once".
> >>>
> >>
> >> - it's a "clear reference" to *that particular joke* ?
> >
> >Well, yeah.
> >
> [snip]
> >
> >Actually, upon checking the page... "No, it ain't Jewish, but it's
> >funny!" I think the reverse is true of some others there...
> >
> >You could make it a chicken, for the soup...
>
> - i am duly impressed at your intimate acquaintence with
> the workings of the mind of the creator & sole chronicler
> of the discworld, and events thereupon, and propinquant.
> i'm just this ppint, and make no such definitive - not to
> say dogmatic - claim.

I've read many of his books. I can tell that he has a writing process
that filters out from his stream of consciousness any well-known tired
old jokes that have been told many times before, and includes them
prominently in the text. ;-)

> >> - then i guess it's also equally "clearly" a reference to
> >> the muslim absolute prohibition against butchering (and
> >> then cooking & eating, or doing aught else to) any animal,
> >> without first killing it in a way that ensures it is dead
> >> before aught else is done in the way of carving it up.
> >
> >So casting Om as representing Allah.
>
> - nope.

Well, Om is (1) the "god" in the story and (2) opposed to having his
leg cut off. Does your remark not imply an association?

> >Nice. Of course they are not really the same - Om is a spirit who
> >makes personal appearances in animal form. Big, impressive, scary
> >animal form, if he can manage it. Or... tortoise.
>
> - i made and make no claim that om represents allah: so the
> fact that they are not identical diminishes the reference i
> pointed out as being of equal likelihood not one whit; the
> fact that arabia, and much of the lands islam spread out a-
> cross are desert lands, of low rainfall and copious amounts
> of dry rock and sand may, however, fairly and quite reason-
> ably be adduced in support of this reference; enlightened
> codes of conduct towards "dumb" animals as might otherwise
> have suffered partial & progressive dismemberment for food
> *without being killed* are rarely going to be legislated,
> without perceived _need_. and in the poverty and privation
> of the arabian desert, in this world, such need did exist:
> hence the utter ban upon the practice in the rule of islam.
> >
> >> (i've no idea how to establish which came first, of course:
> >> islam's only been around some fourteen hundred years or so...)
> >
> >For longer than that, Christians have been ritually consuming pieces
> >of their god's body (the Pillsbury Dough Boy). So it could be that.
> >
> - there is a parallel total ban upon the partial progressive
> dismemberment for food of living animals in law laid down in
> the recorded teachings of jesus (or, at least, the teachings
> attributed directly to him)?

Not specifically. He doesn't seem to have been interested in laying
down rules for animal husbandry. However, he was Jewish and a long
tradition of rules of animal care existed. Arguably these include a
specification of acceptable sacrifice animals, without blemish.
Perhaps otherwise they got a lot of rather poor livestock offered as
sacrifices. I forget whether they went for the cooking pot afterwards,
but if they did, you'd want to make sure that you got the good stuff.

> - whatever one makes of the doctrine of transubstantiation,
> nowhere have i seen it claimed that jesus was carved up and
> pieces of him cooked _whilst_he_yet_lived_ during the course
> of the last supper; and *that* is what would be the parallel.

Not specifically.

I am not particularly familiar with Islamic rules on stockmanship,
which I will presume to be as you describe. This may be my peculiar
ignorance, but I still think it is most likely that Pterry also, at the
time of writing _Small Gods_ and also later, would think first of what
is, I assure you, a well-known joke than a religious injunction.

In any case, was there or is there much of a "problem" of animal
mutilation amongst prospective Muslims or infidels? It seems to me a
thing that almost no one would think of doing anyway, and therefore not
a very important rule.
Re: [A] Small Gods [message #237253 ] Di, 14 März 2006 23:49
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
Also Sprach Puck:

> I was just reading the annotations for SG, and I noticed
> that a pretty obvious one had been left out.
>
> After Om has been winning Didactylos all that money by
> drawing geometric figures in the sand, Diddactylos tells
> Urn to saw off one of the tortoise's legs for stew because
> "A tortoise like that you don't eat all at once."
>
> This is a reference to a classic joke. A man passes a farm
> and sees a pig with a peg leg. He asks ths farmer how it
> got it, and the farmer says that the pig saved his entire
> family from a fire; "A pig like that you don't eat all at
> once."
>
> It is a pretty clear reference. An animal has been of great
> use to a human, the human callously decides to eat it
> anyway, but settles for just a leg because a "(creature)
> like that you don't eat all at once".

The joke, as I'm familiar with it, is actually *closer* to the
Pterry version; the farmer believes the pig to be a genius,
possibly on a par with Babe.

See also:
http://www.arthurkingoftimeandspace.com/0622.htm

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"Sometimes scientific progress requires personal sacrifice.
Personally, I sacrifice Beaker." -Dr Bunsen Honeydew
Re: Small Gods [message #237311 ] Mi, 15 März 2006 09:38
dicconf  
In article <1142022926.439492.131010 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie [at] excite.com> wrote:

>ppint. wrote:
<snip>

>> - there is a parallel total ban upon the partial progressive
>> dismemberment for food of living animals in law laid down in
>> the recorded teachings of jesus (or, at least, the teachings
>> attributed directly to him)?
<snip>

>In any case, was there or is there much of a "problem" of animal
>mutilation amongst prospective Muslims or infidels? It seems to me a
>thing that almost no one would think of doing anyway, and therefore not
>a very important rule.

ISTR reading of a practice in some culture or other not entirely far
away from the Mediterranean, whose members regularly cut flesh from
living animals and ate it, leaving the animal alive but wounded.
I've also read that many of the biblical dietary rules were based on
rejecting elements of competing cultures. I don't recall the details
and it's too late at night here to dig out the book I might have
read it in.

=Tamar
Re: Small Gods [message #237431 ] Mi, 15 März 2006 21:12
alec  
In article <121fkjahe3f3000 [at] corp.supernews.com>, dicconf [at] radix.net
says...

> ISTR reading of a practice in some culture or other not entirely far
> away from the Mediterranean, whose members regularly cut flesh from
> living animals and ate it, leaving the animal alive but wounded.
> I've also read that many of the biblical dietary rules were based on
> rejecting elements of competing cultures. I don't recall the details
> and it's too late at night here to dig out the book I might have
> read it in.

Reading the latest Flashman book, he refers to the custom as being
common in Ethiopia at the time of writing. Since GMF usually reasearches
quite a lot, it may well be true.

I think they didn't particularly keep the animal alive past the evening,
they just wanted thair steak *completely* fresh.
Vorheriges Thema:[I] Scotch
Nächstes Thema:[I] hey, you, you wanna buy a flat?
Gehe zu:
  


aktuelle Zeit: Fr Mai 25 10:56:31 CEST 2012

Insgesamt benötigte Zeit, um die Seite zu erzeugen: 0,12456 Sekunden
.:: Startseite - Hinweise - Impressum ::.

Powered